The Bravery, Courage, and Personal Transformation of Kathleen Reynolds

        What is to give light must endure burning — Viktor Frankl

“Because sometimes the most holy thing we can say is: No. Not on my watch.”

                                                                       – Nadia Bolz-Weber, ordained Lutheran Pastor

Kathleen Reynolds is an educator and an advocate of LGBTQ rights in Scotland. At 23 years of age, she is using her time during the Covid19 pandemic to finish her second master’s degree in Inclusive Education, take care of her aunt who has Down Syndrome, tutor, and appear on the stage at Glasgow University in TEDx: Distortion.

She is not teaching due to being the full-time Carer for her aunt who is immune compromised. During the pandemic, it was too risky for her to teach so she had to shield herself even more from others.

Thank you for accepting this interview, Kathleen. What does passion mean to you and how would you describe your passion?

I think passion is being motivated and interested in something, driving you in a central way that is almost indescribable, like when I think about LGBTQ education it’s something that drives my personality and motivation.

When was the first time you felt the word passion? It has been such an integral word when it comes to living a fulfilling lifestyle.

I wasn’t “out” until I left high school, around 18 years old and I already decided to be a teacher at that point and complete my teacher training, I think it wasn’t until I worked with children who have LGBTQ family members or identify in that spectrum themselves that I started to understand how important it was. My high school experience was really bad, which I thought was an isolated experience, but I saw that other children, too, felt these hardships which made me feel I had to do something about it.

Was education something you felt you wanted to work in?

I didn’t always want to be a teacher actually. I was motivated by my aunt, and she is turning 60 this year. When she was a child, people with Down Syndrome did not get an education. You would attend a community centre but weren’t really taught how to write or do ‘maths’ or told you are good enough because you are viewed as not being intelligent. I mean, there’s a lot of people with Down Syndrome now with PhDs who are doing so much more, and it made me think, well if my aunt had that opportunity, what would become of her, what would she have achieved?

That’s when I thought I wanted to go into formal education and see everyone having endless opportunities, that nothing is impossible for a child. 

What was your educational background?

At age 18, I entered the Russell Group to work on my masters in primary education (ages 5- 11) and religious studies. (Kathleen will finish with her second master’s degree in Inclusive Education for LQBTQ and Additional Support Needs in one year.)                                                             

Why religious studies?

In Scotland, schools are split between Catholic and non-denominational. It is good to have religious studies in your major.

We often learn from our upbringing, were your parents and friends very compassionate and open-minded while you were growing up?

I attended a Catholic school. The levels of homophobia and transphobia from my peers, who were all the same age as me, was absolutely ridiculous. There were signs on the walls of the school that said things like, “It’s Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve”. My senior year, people started suspecting I was lesbian and were afraid to change [clothes] in front of me. Why would I want to look at someone getting changed? It’s just such an inappropriate thing. I don’t see why someone who is gay is more likely to do that than a straight person…

There are a lot of misconceptions and generalizations about people with “alternative” lifestyles. In part, which may be because people who are cisgender don’t understand all the acronyms, terminology, and nuances or that there is a fluidity and a wide spectrum of gender identification. This can lead to fear and bigotry.

I remember one time one of my peers saying they wouldn’t be comfortable with a gender-neutral bathroom because what if a trans child tried to molest another child? And I said, when have you heard of a child molesting another child in primary school?

There are times when that can happen, but it isn’t related so much to gender as it is to a child who has been sexually abused.

The “trans” part isn’t going to lead to that. It is rare.

Back in the day during the aid’s crisis, gay men were portrayed as sexual creatures that will attack and rape people and now trans are getting this lash back. None of this is true.

There were posters on the walls promoting conversion therapy, which is still legal in Scotland. People think that because it [same-sex marriage] is legal in Scotland and because we have introduced Inclusive curriculum, that it makes it a friendly place.

There were leaflets given to parents at my school about conversion therapy, which is horrifying, as if it’s something that can be corrected. We went to pro-life conferences and read essays about a fetus in the womb, they were very conservative, and the messages were drilled in, not as an option. I couldn’t come out; I was so disgusted with myself.

Was the message you got from your education that straightness corners the market on God’s love?

Yes. I didn’t come out as pansexual until after high school. I came out to others as well as myself. It took me that long because I just couldn’t face it. 

You “couldn’t face it” because of what kinds of emotions?

My parents being very Catholic, really struggled when I came out as pansexual, because it’s such a big change and hard for them to understand. It’s a misunderstood label- being pansexual.  They thought I wanted to date multiple partners! But that’s really not it. I just want to date one person, but I don’t care about their gender, just who they are as a person.

In the household it wasn’t really discussed, which affected my internalized homophobia, and even I used to use ‘slurs’, and I’m so ashamed of myself for doing that, but it’s also about understanding and growing through that, and learning my lessons. You can overcome it and move past it.

There is such a dichotomy between understanding and accepting yourself versus the confidence to teach others how to understand and accept you. That is asking a lot of a person. I am seeing a young woman in front of me who has gone on the national stage with TEDx and yet has not shared this with her whole family. Are you more comfortable in the public realm rather than the personal realm?

Absolutely. I work as a Carer as well as a teacher. I told the [Care] group that I was doing a TEDx Talk on LGBTQ things and they said, are you part of the LGBTQ community? They made it very clear they weren’t in support. I was, “OH! No. No, no, no.” So, I still will deny it. It can be a safety thing. Obviously, the pain is when you don’t come out for safety. I just do it because I am embarrassed. That was just a month ago.

Do you think there will come a point in time when you reach a tipping point?

(Nods yes vigorously) There are some older family members – It’s just not worth it. Not worth the hassle of it.

And you don’t want to lose them.

Some of the older ones I don’t want to tell because it would destroy the relationship.

My boyfriend is transgender, female to male. I feel like there’s been a lot of progress being made for gay people and lesbians but when it comes to trans people we are so far behind…. Nobody understands this, it’s acceptable to joke about identifying themselves as pronouns, like the joke that “Are people going to start identifying themselves as teapots…?”

No, people just want to be who they are.

With the pronouns you talked about, what are all of them out there, we see a lot of people putting the pronouns in their e-mail signature or Instagram, so explain to our audience a little more about that.

When trans people put their pronouns in their bios it’s like a flashlight, but if everyone does it it’s normal, so I do encourage people to put their pronouns out there too. The most common ones are he/him, she/her, and they/them, though there are more. I think it’s great e.g., Sam Smith, who came out as non-binary. It’s so misunderstood how someone can be non-binary.

Being pansexual means it’s very much bisexual but I don’t really see gender and am just attracted to who I am attracted to. What trans people go through is so much worse. Even in America now, there’s a law in Texas that you can put up signs in your windows saying you can’t serve trans members.

A new term has developed for those who support and defend the LGBTQ community, “Allies”. One of the difficulties in being and/or becoming an ally is not knowing the terms, definitions and acronyms used in reference to the LGBTQ community. Lens of Passion has included a glossary of currently used terms in the Further Resource list at the end of this article.

What struck me at TEDx, is the way in which you objectively shared the information instead of pushing it in one direction. Can you elaborate on this?

So, my degree was in primary education and religious studies. I’m aware of religious identities and respectful of them, when I am teaching things, I’m never forcing a message, and trying to encompass cultures, and know that not everyone is going to have the same values.

There are situations where members of the LGBTQ community believe that some religious cultures are against them. If you start a movement against tolerance, then you will get it [intolerance] back. And that’s important to teach children.

How do you feel about this journey? The Latin word ‘passion’ relates to sacrifice and suffering- there can be a dark side to this word. How do you see it in this context?

I’m always reminded of the Stonewall movement, and how LGBTQ now has stemmed from the Black community (trans women) who were out their sacrificing, we forget how far we’ve come, and it’s important to remember their roots. People tend to frame it as a battle between LGBTQ and religious groups, and it’s not that way at all.  My family are very Catholic, and they fully accept me now. My two best friends are both Muslim. Everyone can work together.

We spoke a bit about religion and the misconception of promiscuity with LGBTQ, what other hurdles are there for people who don’t accept or tolerate?

There are some religions where specifically LGBT are not allowed, and yet in some religions trans people used to be worshipped as God, to have one God to overlook and accept all. In most cultures it was absolutely normal, and now the British/Western civilization thrust heterosexuality upon the rest of the world – and now they’re making the move for inclusivity and saying that others are backward- yet it is what they did during their early colonization!

People are scared of it because they don’t know what it means. If children are taught at an early age, then there’s no room for hate to grow- this will really change society.

You identify as pan or bisexual, in 2021 do you feel supported and accepted?

It’s difficult because when you tell people you have a boyfriend, they assume you’re straight. And I get to have the privilege to identify either way, it’s also very difficult for him because he gets more abuse being trans, people don’t understand. I was even attacked in the street by a group of teenage boys when I had a girlfriend.

Has your experience in the classroom been pleasant?

The kids were great.

 Who needs inclusivity education? Can you talk about what is happening at the national level in Scotland?

In 2018, Scotland said they would be training every teacher on LGBT education, but if you properly read into it, they’re being very fly about it. For example, if you live in the big cities such as Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen you can attend the training but when it’s optional / rural area you won’t get the training and just a resource pack.

As a teacher you’re getting more paperwork, policies, this and that and new methods and curriculum, and endless stream of new information.

As new teachers you have to go through continuous professional development (CPD), and you have to complete a certain number of hours a year. Imagine getting a whole stack of new developments to read and digest- especially if you are not that aware or interested in it. It can be a lot to take in- let alone motivated. Also, by making it optional this does not incentivize all teachers to take part.

Can you share the curriculum of an LGBT education? What does one go through to be taught and qualified in this realm?

As I mentioned before, though there has been a curriculum change since 2018 (in Scotland), there is no specific training for teachers in this field at all. For example, I’m just doing this second degree because I’m interested in it, it’s something I want to do, but [it] doesn’t give me any added qualifications to fill a specific role.

If you were one of the movers or shakers in the education bureau what are the first few agendas or changes would you add to teacher’s training?

To make sure every future teacher is getting educated in what LGBT stands for. A lot of people think that primary school students don’t need to be educated on this at such an early age, yet they may be affected by family members who are part of the LGBT community.

In my research, trans children can identify at age 4, and they can come out younger. Discrimination can start very quickly and if you don’t teach them at an early age everyone is equal no matter their identity, then it’s going to build up quickly.

Educating teachers is critical, as is educating administrators. The reality is that educators touch the lives of children briefly compared to their families and communities. Does Scotland’s shift in curriculum impact the children’s nuclear family?

I was doing a topic on Mexico, (I was teaching 9 and 10-year-olds) and I was teaching Frieda Kahlo, who I absolutely love and adore as a person. We sort of found out as a class that she had female partners and was bisexual. All the class was fine; no one in the class batted an eye.

One of the classmates told her grand dad and her grand dad got out the Bible and showed her some passages and she came back to school and said, “Miss Reynolds, I have to tell you that that is not ok.”

I don’t know if in the United States you follow the United Nations Rights of the Child, but the articles are posted in every classroom in Scotland. (https://www.unicef.ca/sites/default/files/2016-11/crc_poster_en.pdf) I took her to the article representing religious beliefs and talked about how we can all  do this together. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. I gave her other examples like football teams or ice cream flavors. You can have an opinion and still respect someone else even if they have a different opinion or belief. I think that is how you teach children. Just bring it down to their level.

What are the most remarkable or frequent questions you get asked by students or teenagers? Something that challenges what you have been taught?

So what I spoke about in my TED Talk– while I was doing my undergrad degree I was placed in a school for a year to work and I wasn’t planning on coming out, at the time I was dating a girl and it was by chance a few kids saw me, I actually was surprised because the kids were cool about it, there were a few that came up to me telling me their dads are gay, and one girl even approached me saying that she thought she was a lesbian, and I remember telling her, ‘that’s great’! What you need to do as a teacher is to distance yourself and not give too much personal advice, so I referred her on to LGBT Scotland and resources- as she was bullied for it.

I got really homophobic comments from staff and the deputy head pulled me over saying I was too open about my sexuality which was a difficult experience.

As a teacher what would you say if you have a student who identifies as LGBT but comes from a very religious family and are having this struggle between being themselves and staying in the family?

I’d say that you can still have your religion, and have multiple identities at once, families can be difficult and hard to understand but if they love you, they’ll respect your choice.

My extended family don’t accept it at all, for example my grandparents. And that’s difficult. to hide aspects of yourself – it’s unique to every child.

I can think of some books and resources that would be quite good for them to read.

How do you feel about the fact that LGBT is being used as a chip (in the corporate, senior management world) if someone speaks openly about this it’s a win or lose, rather than a humanitarian perspective?

I think that’s the big thing with pride month coming up. Every big clothing brand, there’s a Pride range, but sometimes they’ll donate money to charity. Most of the times they won’t- they’re commercializing on it. This is a really big debate in the LGBT community.

Or just focusing on ‘one month’ as opposed to something ongoing.

In education we call that a “tourist” curriculum. Meaning that we do not just celebrate the histories and contributions of a group of people for one month of the year but integrate throughout the curriculum in general. Sometimes, the month chosen can be an insult.

What are some of the organizations or projects that in your observation are legitimate, healthy and helpful ones for our readers to learn more about LGBTQ?

LGBT Scotland are very good, they carry out research in Scottish schools, their statistics are fascinating. Stonewall UK, and in America the Trevor Project (they offer a phone/help line for those to get help).

It is often so disheartening to see cases of bullying, depression and even suicide. One assumes that times are changing, but sometimes this is not the case. Are teachers being trained in the best protocol to deal with these situations? (Crisis management, etc.)

It comes back to conversion therapy, since it’s still legal in Scotland, that Catholic schools still advocate to parents. The fact this exists is mind boggling and horrific, mental illness in itself isn’t something underexplored.

CAMHS [Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services] has such a large waiting time, to get appointments. I also suffered lots of mental health issues as a teenager and there was nobody to help me work through it for myself. Teachers also don’t have enough knowledge or training in this field.

Where are you in the spectrum of supporting the many movements?

Yeah, to be honest even talking to a 9-year-old trans child, their priority is to have longer hair, and wear a skirt, they didn’t want a complete gender change. That hurts no-one. But when they get older there are things like puberty blockers which can be gone on and off. Children don’t take hormone treatments. All these changes they make as a child are reversible, which sometimes people don’t see.

If you have a teenage student who is using hormones to intervene, what would you say to them?

I think at this point they will just be on suppressants, which they can go off and on, and not make much difference.

What is the ideal world you have in your mind?

For everyone to have their own religion and sexuality, and gender identity…as long as you’re not hurting anyone else, what is the harm? People advocate tolerance, but this isn’t enough- as if you’re putting up with it. You just need to accept, you don’t need to even love or celebrate it, just accept. Teachers in the UK need to not choose a side, to be respectful and understanding and open minded. Media perpetuates a conflict, but it’s not as bad as it seems.

We’ve seen many LGBT flags- do you have a favourite? Or if you were to design a flag for what you stand for, what would it be like?

I like the flags with the brown and black and just the rainbow. It acknowledges the different ethnicities and honours those in the black community.

In Scotland and England, the National Health Service, (NHS) during the pandemic had their symbol become a rainbow! Shops and bars and people’s houses are flying flags thinking it is in support for the NHS. It’s kind of funny, but so many LGBTQ people see that and thinks, “All right, that’s a safe space.” But it’s not.

Imagine there is a hall of fame for teachers, and you can leave a message or a quote on the wall that every single student on the planet gets to see. What would it say?

Not an easy question! I would say – every child deserves to be loved and accepted for who they are.

Beautiful, thank you so much for your time Kathleen!  🙂

Every day she reads it because it is a source of inspiration to her to continue her journey. Godspeed.

Further Resources – We at Lens of Passion would like to create a bibliography of worldwide references for the support of LGBTQ and Allies. If our readers have any information they would like to include in this list, please add them into the conversation at our IG page: https://www.instagram.com/lensofpassionofficial/
or our discussion room on SELECT: https://lensofpassion.select.id/H-jdxglhj

♡

https://www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/

https://www.stonewall.org.uk

https://www.scottishtrans.org/

https://legacyprojectchicago.org/ 
Celebrating individual contributions to human history

https://icl.legacyprojectchicago.org/ 
Illinois State Curriculum for the integration of LGBTQ

https://www.ilsafeschools.org/professional-development-1 
Professional Development for Educators

https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender 
Glossary of terms and definitions

http://thesafezoneproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/GenderbreadPersonLGBTQUmbrella.pdf 
The Genderbread Curriculum for Leaders and Educators

https://www.advocatesforyouth.org/issue/lgbtq-health-and-rights/ 
LGBTQ Health and Rights

https://nadiabolzweber.com/
Nadia Bolz-Weber is an author, Lutheran minister and public theologian. She served as the founding pastor of House for All Sinners and Saints, a congregation of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America in Denver, Colorado, until July 8, 2018. She is also a three-time New York Times bestselling author. (Wikipedia)

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
Saving LGBTQ lives

https://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx 
Detailed version of the United Nations’ Convention on the Rights of the Child

https://gghk2022.com/en/
Gay Games 2022 in Hong Kong – first in Asia

Thank you for reading. See you next time.